Grammar Stammer Blog - Grammar Stammer

Neither – Nor

1/27/2012

Neither is negative in meaning. It is the only negative word required in an independent clause. An independent clause has both a noun and a verb. The verb will always be in the affirmative.

Nor is also negative in meaning. It is the the only negative word required in an independent clause. An independent clause has both a noun and a verb. The verb is always in the affirmative.

Neither and Nor are most often used in conjunction. When this happens, they join two negative ideas. They mean, "not the first part, not the second part". Think of Neither – Nor as the opposite of Both – And.

Nor is a coordinating conjunction (and, so, but, or, etc.). This means that it normally connects ideas within a sentence – joining two independent clauses. Nor continues a negative statement of a negative statement already mentioned.

Apart from their negative meanings, here are some rules:

1. Neither is never paired with 'or'.
Example:
I neither saw the movie nor read the book.

2. Neither + singular noun
Example:
Neither option appeals to me.

3. Neither of + (the) plural noun
Example:
Holly said that neither of the movies were good.

4. When two subjects are connected by Neither – Nor, the subject that is closest to the verb determines whether the verb is singular or plural.
Examples:
- Neither my brother nor my parents have been to Korea.
- Neither my parents nor my brother has been to Korea.

5. When Neither – Nor are paired, we must use parallel structure.
Examples:
- He neither slowed down, nor acknowledged me at the intersection.
(Neither + verb, Nor + verb)
-Neither man nor woman has been to Mars.
(Neither + noun, Nor + noun)
- The article is neither interesting nor accurate.
(Neither + adjective, Nor + adjective)

6. When Neither is used at the beginning of a clause and is not paired with Nor, but follows a previous negative statement, we must invert word order, meaning that the subject and the verb or auxiliary are inverted.
Example:
A: I don't like onions.
B: Neither do I.

7. When Nor is used at the beginning of a clause and is not paired with Neither, it must follow a negative statement. We must invert word order, meaning that the subject and verb or auxiliary are reversed.
Example:
A: I don't like waking up early.
B: Nor do I.

8. Informally, we have all heard people say, "Me neither", as in the example:
A: I can't swim.
B: Me neither.
The formal answer to the first statement is: "I can't either."

37 Comments

Doreen

2/11/2012 12:58:13 am

This is such an advantage for students, very helpful with their English lessons, you are doing a great job.

Bonnie

2/11/2012 01:01:53 am

Thank you. Saturday morning smiles all around. :)

Hasan İzzet link

4/11/2012 04:18:55 am

April 11, 2012

Dear Director,

I think when we combine the words or phrases grammatically equal in one sentence we still have a simple sentence. For example when these two sentences ' Ann doesn't like playing tennis. And 'She doesn't like playing volleyball either.' the result is 'Ann neither likes playing tennis nor playing volleyball.' The outcome is still a simple sentence. As far as I know to attain a compound sentence the two simple sentences should have a relation in meaning. In all web sites I haven't found an exact clarification on compound sentences written via correlative sentences.

1. Would you please explain me how to write compound sentences using the correlative conjuctions 'neither nor' and either or'.

2. Is using 'a comma' is a must when forming compound sentences with correlative conjuctions?

Best regards,

Hasan İzzet

Hasan İzzet link

4/11/2012 04:24:50 am

April 11, 2012

REVISED

Dear Director,

I think when we combine the words or phrases grammatically equal in one sentence we still have a simple sentence. For example when these two sentences ' Ann doesn't like playing tennis. And 'She doesn't like playing volleyball either.' the result is 'Ann likes neither playing tennis nor playing volleyball.' The outcome is still a simple sentence. As far as I know to attain a compound sentence the two simple sentences should have a relation in meaning. In all web sites I haven't found an exact clarification on compound sentences written via correlative sentences.

1. Would you please explain me how to write compound sentences using the correlative conjuctions 'neither nor' and either or'.

2. Is using 'a comma' is a must when forming compound sentences with correlative conjuctions?

Best regards,

Hasan İzzet

Hasan İzzet link

4/11/2012 04:27:28 am

Bonnie Whelan

4/11/2012 10:42:35 am

Hi Hasan,

Thanks for your comments and questions. You are right in saying that the following sentence is simple. However, it should be written as follows: "Ann neither likes playing tennis nor volleyball." You don't have to repeat the verb if it is the same after the conjunction.

Answering question #1:
To make a compound sentence, you need a subject and a verb on both sides of the correlative conjunction. You can do this by writing, "Ann neither likes playing tennis, nor does she like playing volleyball." Notice that if we do this, the subject and verb are inverted after the conjunction "nor".

Answering question #2:
I learned and have taught that if you have a compound sentence with the use of a correlative conjunction, you must use a comma. The comma would go right before the conjunction. However, if your sentence is simple, it is up to your personal preference.

I haven't yet addressed 'commas' in my blog because although there are rules, I feel there are MANY exceptions or convincing arguments that go against the rules. I feel that a forum would be a better place to discuss the use of commas, where everyone can share their ideas.

Thanks for checking out my blog and asking very good questions. I hope to chat again.

Take care,
Bonnie

Rodney

1/24/2014 06:01:50 am

I think your answer to Hasan's question 1 is misleading. He asked about using “neither… nor” as a correlative conjunction in a compound sentence. The example you have provided (“Ann neither likes playing tennis, nor does she like playing volleyball”) contains the words “neither” and “nor,” but they are not being used correctly. The parts of a compound sentence (i.e., the independent clauses) should be able to stand alone, and the independent clause “Ann neither likes playing tennis” makes no sense.

I can think of many examples of “either… or” in a compound sentence. For example, “Either Ann is going to play tennis with Susan, or she is going to see a movie with Bobby.” (There are better ways to convey that information, but the sentence is not incorrect.)

Examples with “neither… nor” in a compound sentence are much harder to construct, but I think this might be the “correct” version of your sentence: “Neither Ann wants to play tennis, nor does she want to play volleyball.” However, nobody would say that. They might say, “Ann wants to play neither tennis nor volleyball.” This is not a compound sentence. Or “Ann doesn’t want to play tennis or volleyball.” This is also not a compound sentence.

Constructing a compound sentence with “neither… nor” is kind of a fascinating problem.

Bonnie

1/27/2014 09:31:18 am

Hi Rodney,

I don't think I've misled Hasan.

Analyzing a sentence with both 'neither and nor' can be tricky. Let's review the sentence I offered as an example:

Ann neither likes playing tennis, nor does she like playing volleyball.

Note: 'neither' and 'nor' act as negatives to both parts of the sentence.
Note: When we use 'nor' in an independent clause without 'neither', the subject and verb get inverted.

If we break up the sentence into two parts, without using 'neither/nor', we get:

Anne doesn't like playing tennis. Ann doesn't like playing volleyball.

To have an independent clause, you need a subject and a verb. In both parts of my sentence, I have a subject and a verb.

I've also, to the best of my knowledge, used the correlative conjunctions 'neither/nor' correctly.

I hope we can continue the discussion.

Rodney

1/27/2014 12:16:21 pm

Bonnie:

We can continue the discussion, but I don't think we're going to agree.

An independent clause needs a subject and a verb, as you say, but if there are extraneous words, then it's not a valid clause. "I am with going to the store" has a subject and a verb, but it makes no sense.

I've looked in every grammar and usage book I own (Garner's "Modern American Usage," Fowler's "Modern English Usage," the Chicago Manual, the Gregg Manual, Partridge's "Usage and Abusage," the "Penguin Dictionary of American English Usage and Style," etc.), and I can find no example of "neither" used in this way. I challenge you to find an example of this construction as you had it in any source separate from this blog page.

Basically, my argument is that your example is incorrect, mainly because it is not truly a compound sentence.

The first independent clause ("Anne neither likes playing tennis") must be able to stand on its own without alteration of the words; you can't just break the sentence into two parts that contain words DIFFERENT from those in the example, say "this is what it means," and still claim that it's an example. If the sentence read "Ann neither likes playing tennis nor likes playing volleyball," it would be correct, although it would no longer be a compound sentence.

Also, the elements in a "neither... nor" pair must be syntactically parallel:

Ann
neither likes playing tennis,
nor does she like playing volleyball

The phrase "likes playing tennis" is not parallel to the phrase "nor does she like playing volleyball."

I just don't agree that this is a grammatical English sentence. But simply removing the comma fixes the independent clause, and the remaining non-parallel syntax is more a usage problem than a grammar problem.

Rodney

1/27/2014 12:16:31 pm

Bonnie

1/28/2014 09:46:33 am

Hi Rodney,
We've exhausted the comments in a linear fashion, so I'm replying to your first comment.
True enough, at the moment I cannot find anything similar to the example I offered Hasan. I have looked in "Understanding and Using English Grammar - Third edition", "Focus on Grammar - A High-Intermediate Course for Reference and Practice - Second Edition", and "Oxford Practice Grammar". But thats doesn't mean I'm wrong.
However, I did look into the example you state is grammatically correct: “Neither Ann wants to play tennis, nor does she want to play volleyball.” In this I did find evidence proving it incorrect.
In the book, "Practical English Usage - Third Edition" by Michael Swan, I found that 'neither' cannot begin a complete clause. Reference page 350, item 373.
I'll keep looking. If you find something solid to prove me incorrect, let me know.

Rodney

1/28/2014 10:33:10 am

Well, you are right about that sentence. I was confused, clearly. I stick with the sentence in my most recent prior message:
"Ann neither likes playing tennis nor likes playing volleyball."
or
"Ann likes to play neither tennis nor volleyball."
or, most simply,
"Ann doesn't like to play tennis or volleyball."

I don't have any of the books you're referring to; I'm a copy editor, not a teacher. However, it's perfectly acceptable to begin a clause with "neither":

"Neither Ann nor Sue wants to play tennis."

I found Swan's book on Amazon, but unfortunately, the page in question was not one of those available for viewing. However I did note on page ix that the book is about "standard modern everyday British English usage"; perhaps this explains the difference.

I think we might agree on this: whether your original sentence is correct or not, it is not the most felicitous way to present the information contained in the sentence.

Rodney

Bonnie

1/29/2014 09:29:35 am

Hello again,

What I meant by 'Neither' not starting a complete clause was that it couldn't start a complete clause in the kind of example given:“Neither Ann wants to play tennis, nor does she want to play volleyball.” However, your follow-up example is good because of the parallel structure used following both 'neither' and 'nor':"Neither Ann nor Sue wants to play tennis."
I'll concede that the example I offered Hasan may not be correct. I
also agree with you that constructing a compound sentence with 'neither/nor' is incredibly difficult.
Ya got me!

grammarman

1/17/2015 06:08:43 pm

Hi Bonnie,
I came across your name on grammar stammer.
could you please explain this to me; are both of these sentences correct? if yes which one sounds better?
1-they neither have the level to be at a middle school nor the motivation to study anything namely languages
2-they neither have the level to be at a middle school nor do they have the motivation to study anything namely languages.

if you don't mind could you email me the answer because I may not be able to find this website again . here is my email: [email protected]
thank you so much.

Thomas Motley

12/28/2017 08:59:48 am

Hasan: "Ann likes neither playing tennis nor playing volleyball."
Bonnie: "Ann neither likes playing tennis nor volleyball."

Bonnie, your revision actually introduces errors, and your reasoning doesn't apply. Strictly speaking, the second "playing" in Hasan's sentence *is* necessary, and the reason is parallel construction. "Neither" is followed by a gerund phrase (the gerund "playing" plus a noun), so "nor" should be too. A gerund is derived from a verb but functions as a noun. The real verb in the sentence is "likes," which Hasan does not repeat. Each gerund phrase acts as a direct object, telling the reader what Ann doesn't like. The reason it wouldn't sound terrible to omit the second "playing" is that the sentence doesn't need any gerund at all, but in order to have parallel structure, you need to either keep both or omit both. The latter option is the simplest and most natural: "Ann likes neither tennis nor volleyball."

Now, putting "neither" before the verb, as Bonnie does (perhaps unintentionally), means that in order to have parallel structure, both the verb and the gerund phrase need to be repeated, like so: "Ann neither likes playing tennis nor likes playing volleyball." This sentence is unnecessarily wordy, but it's not incorrect. Bonnie's sentence, on the other hand, is quite incorrect. Perhaps she meant to write, "Ann likes neither playing tennis nor volleyball." As explained above, omitting the second "playing" makes the sentence unparallel. but because Bonnie changed "likes neither" to "neither likes," the sentence she actually wrote is even more unparallel.

Bonnie

12/28/2017 09:23:46 am

Deleting "likes playing" in the second half is permissible (but not required).

I suggest that you should be guided in your choice of including or deleting the "likes playing" by the complexity of your sub-clauses. In this case, the sub-clause is fairly short, so it’s easy for the reader to keep the commanding verb "likes playing" in mind from one sub-clause to the next. When the clauses are heavier or more complex, the "likes playing" should be retained, to remind the reader of the construction.

aydan

4/28/2013 05:52:33 am

does neither nor take indefinite article?
There is neither _ book nor _ pen on the table.

Henry

2/26/2014 10:09:49 pm

Is this sentence wrong?

Neither mobile phones nor computers do I have to close or minimise the application and open the other

Everard

7/3/2014 09:06:21 am

Yes, the sentence, "Neither mobile phones nor computers do I have to close or minimise the application and open the other", does not make sense unless you are trying to write a dialogue for a Start Wars movie (YODA-speak).

Using your sentence, I could write.."Ann neither likes mobile phones nor computers."

Henry

2/26/2014 10:11:17 pm

Is this sentence wrong?

Neither mobile phones nor computers do I have to close or minimise the application and open the other.

Henry

2/26/2014 10:11:26 pm

Is this sentence wrong?

Neither mobile phones nor computers do I have to close or minimise the application and open the other.

Henry

2/26/2014 10:11:32 pm

Is this sentence wrong?

Neither mobile phones nor computers do I have to close or minimise the application and open the other.

Rodney

2/26/2014 11:58:32 pm

Henry,

I don't think it's "wrong," but it is awkward. Just adding the word "with" at the beginning of the sentence would help greatly. You could also turn it around:

"I don't have to close or minimize the application and open the other on mobile phones or computers."

Bonnie

2/27/2014 12:06:46 am

Hi Henry,
It's not wrong. In fact, it sounds very Shakespearean (that is if Shakespeare wrote about computers). However, the sentence doesn't really make logical sense. If you don't have any computers, then why are we talking about minimizing windows? But maybe the content of the sentence isn't the point, just the grammatical structure.
Just keep in mine that while your sentence is grammatically correct, the structure isn't often used when speaking in the 21st century.

Siraspirant111

4/22/2014 05:26:45 am

Hello
Please, give me information. Which of the following sentences is correct?
- He left neither a key nor a message.
- He left neither _ key nor _ message.

Give me information about the use of indefinite articles with the correlative conjunctions, please.
If it is possible, write a link of a grammar book that I can get information from.
Thanks a lot beforehand
Yours
R.Agha

Siraspirant111

4/22/2014 05:35:55 am

siraspirant111

4/22/2014 05:32:45 am

siraspirant111

4/22/2014 05:32:57 am

siraspirant111

4/22/2014 05:35:03 am

hi, I want to ask you,,, there is a sentence " neither math nor biology is important" if we want to analyze it to tree diagram,,, what is the function of neither? I mean as it's there? maybe " conj, adv, det , etc. thank u

7/10/2014 04:57:18 pm

Rodney

7/10/2014 11:57:44 pm

"neither" and "nor" are correlative conjunctions.

Bonnie

7/11/2014 12:23:02 am

That is correct. Thank you, Rodney.

Pia Adelle L. Carig

7/14/2014 02:10:57 am

Thank you, http://grammarstammer.weebly.com/words-to-the-wise/neither-nor

Saffron

2/4/2016 04:13:47 am

When I read your explanation, it feels like I understand it all, but then, when confronted with one of those complex sentences, I just don't know anymore Here's an example (legal context):
"...concluding agreements with the lessor, without there being any intention to pay the deposit and the rent, nor any ability to pay."
Shouldn't it be: "....concluding agreements with the lessor, without there being either an intention to pay the deposit, or an ability to pay."????
Actually, would it be possible to say "without there being neither a", or would that be a double negative.
This is so confusing!

Bonnie

2/4/2016 08:35:40 pm

Hi Saffron,

It looks like you know your stuff. The “legal” sentence is incorrect/
Like you said, it could be

· “…without there being either an intention to pay the deposit and the rent, or an ability to pay”

OR

· “…with there being neither an intention to pay the deposit and the rent, nor an ability to pay”

You’re right about the double negative, so you would change “without” to “with”.

Vanina Petrova

2/19/2016 12:43:17 pm

Can you please explain why this sentence is grammatically correct and why it doesn't contradict the rules of double negation

As soon as this kind of regulation is imposed, lawyers would no longer be able to pretend that they don't know where a piece of paper is, nor could they have no idea of what they're looking for.

Bonnie

2/23/2016 05:21:17 pm

First of all, I apologize for the delay in my response.

Good question As awkward as this sentence is written, it IS grammatically correct. Let me break it down for you.

Nor is a coordinating conjunction that continues a negative statement of a negative statement already mentioned.

First negative statement: “…lawyers would no longer be able to pretend [something].”
(That they don't know where a piece of paper is)

Second negative statement: “…nor could they [something]”
(Have no idea of what they're looking for.)

Both [somethings] in this case indicate a negative action, which is unfortunate, but still grammatically correct.

However, it could have been written in a more clear and concise fashion to avoid having to reread the sentence for clarity:

As soon as this kind of regulation is imposed, lawyers would no longer be able to pretend they lost track of where a piece of paper is, nor could they claim ignorance as to what they’re looking for.

I hope this helps,

Bonnie

Neither – Nor

Leave a Reply.

Categories

Archives

References

Author